Christopher Nolan y Robert Downey Jr. They’ve each worked on some of the most lucrative and beloved superhero movies of our time, many with huge star-studded casts, so how come they’ve never worked together on a movie before, superhero or otherwise?
Their paths crossed, more or less, in Batman starts (we’ll talk about that later). But it took another kind of summer blockbuster, a three-hour biopic about the triumphs and tribulations of a theoretical physicist working in New Mexico in the 1940s, to finally bring them together.
Since its premiere in July, Oppenheimer raised almost a billion dollars worldwide, received critical acclaim and was nominated for numerous awards, including 13 Oscars. Among those nominations are three for Nolan, 53, for best picture, best director and best adapted screenplay, and one for best supporting actor for Downey, 58, for his portrayal of Lewis Strauss, the nemesis of main character, similar to Salieri. The nominations are not the first they have received (counting OppenheimerDowney has received three, and Nolan, eight), but neither had ever won and are now considered favorites.
The day after the Oscar nominations were announced, the two met at Universal Studios to talk about how they met, what winning an Oscar would mean to them, and why so many people didn’t realize that bald, The sweaty man who had it in for Oppenheimer was actually Robert Downey Jr.
These are edited excerpts from our conversation.
-It is the first time they work together. How did you meet?
Robert Downey Jr.: This is what I never got around to asking you. We met in a hallway. Were they casting Batman starts o Batman: The Dark Knight Rises?
Nolan: Batman starts (2005).
Downey: And you knew before I came down for coffee that I probably wasn’t the guy.
Nolan: I knew one hundred percent that you weren’t the guy. In my head it was already decided. But I always wanted to meet you.
Downey: Is it bad taste to tell me the role you already knew I wasn’t going to get?
Nolan: (Long pause) I’m trying to think if it’s good to reveal it or if it’s bad.
Downey: Yes, forget it. She had the feeling that it was one of those reflective meetings…
Nolan: No, I was a big fan of yours and therefore selfishly I just wanted to attend the meeting. But I was also a little afraid of you, you know. I had heard all kinds of stories about how crazy you were. A few years had passed since the last of those stories was published.
-How did you overcome your misgivings?
Downey: You let 10 or 12 years pass and you watch the news cycle.
Nolan: Exact. You let Jon Favreau (the director of Iron Man) take a big risk and that’s it. No, the truth is that I think Jon Favreau’s casting of Robert as Tony Stark is one of the most significant and consequential casting decisions in Hollywood history. He ended up defining our industry. Coming out of COVID, you say, “Thank God for Marvel movies.” And it’s one of those where, in retrospect, everyone thinks it was obvious. But he took a huge risk by casting you in that role.
-Robert, it seems that Chris had already heard a lot about you before they met. What had you heard about Chris?
Downey: I had heard everything from people who were reluctant to work with him to people who said, “He changed my life.” That’s even weirder, because there’s no real consensus.
-I’m sure I’m not the first person who doesn’t recognize him when watching this movie, even though he appears quite a bit.
Nolan: One of the first times we screened the film, I was talking to a young guy afterwards who had no idea Robert was working on it. That’s when I knew you had completely lost yourself in this character. But then I thought, well, how is that going to help sell the movie?
Downey: We weren’t trying to make me unrecognizable. Although you said you would like to take away my beauty. And I said: Christopher Nolan thinks I’m handsome! But it’s not because he has made any transformation, or that he is such a chameleon. It’s just that with this movie, you cold dive into this reality in the first act, and all of these seemingly chaotic threads come back and come together in the engine of the third act, making it an immensely satisfying three-act, three-hour experience. Many things happen. I think he’s getting out of hand.
-When you think of Robert Downey Jr. you don’t necessarily think of a guy like Lewis Strauss, that petty and vindictive bureaucrat. Chris, what made you think Robert Downey Jr. is Lewis Strauss?
Nolan: You’re always looking to work with great actors, but you’re also looking to catch them at a time in their lives and careers where you have something to offer them that they haven’t done before, or haven’t done in a long time. I really wanted to see this incredible movie star leave behind all her baggage, her charisma, and lose herself in the dramatic performance of a very complicated man. I always wanted to work with him, really. When I stopped being afraid of him.
-I imagine Chris’s script helped.
Downey: Everything was there. But I get distracted easily, boring is not the right word, so he let me decorate here or there. And from time to time he reminded us of the times. He wasn’t necessarily telling us to go faster, he was saying, “Remember… it’s a long movie.”
Downey: “It’s a long movie, so, you know, you have to be careful.”
-In the film there are graphic descriptions of the aftermath of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Why did you decide not to show any of that?
Nolan: There were many issues that influenced that decision and the way we planned the performance. The underlying key is that the most powerful thing in cinema is often what is not shown. You ask the audience to use their imagination. It’s something that people who make horror movies understand perfectly, that less can be more. Watching Cillian (Murphy, who plays Oppenheimer) hear some of this stuff is one of the most moving experiences for me, because she takes you on that journey.
El shock de Christopher Nolan
-It is evident that the film did well. But did anyone tell you at the beginning, “I’m not sure a three-hour movie about J. Robert Oppenheimer is going to attract people”?
Nolan: Yes. They told me until the opening night. That opening weekend was exciting. The numbers defied all our hopes. We’ve always done well showing challenging material, but for Emma (Thomas, one of the film’s producers, who is also his wife) and I, it was a complete shock at the level at which it worked.
Downey: Fiscally responsible event cinema. It almost laughs in the face of what I grew up on: the bloated, big-budget ’80s monster where you say, “It doesn’t matter, because they’re going to double your money.”
-What did you learn working together?
Downey: That he had an incomplete education.
Nolan: I already knew that Robert was great, and that if we could get him into that role, he would kill, and he did. But I also learned that the source of that greatness is his generosity. He listens to and takes into account everyone around him creatively.
Downey Jr., sarcastic
Downey: I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but I think he learned that it’s nice to socialize with his actors on set from time to time.
Nolan: No, that’s it (uses an expletive). He took me out to dinner and said, “See? This is great! Isn’t it great?”
-The film received 13 Oscar nominations. However, with all the preparations and early predictions, perhaps it wasn’t a surprise?
Nolan: It was certainly a surprise. You never know what’s going to happen.
Downey: It’s a strange thing, especially when you’re one of the first people in the morning. You don’t want to be that person who sets the alarm clock and waits with bated breath.
Nolan: I didn’t want to see anything by setting the alarm and waiting. I thought if something happened, someone would call me.
Downey: But you don’t bring bad luck.
Nolan: No! I am very superstitious. But I’m not nearly as superstitious as you. But I greatly respect those who bring bad luck.
-What would it mean to you to win the Oscar?
Nolan: I grew up watching the Oscars. I always liked Hollywood, Hollywood movies, studio movies, all that. So, yeah, it would be a dream come true.
Downey: Things are so weird now compared to what they were 30 years ago when I was doing my first mini round for Chaplin (1992, which earned him a nomination for best actor). I remember thinking I had a lot of free time in my schedule. It never occurred to anyone on my team that I would have to expend too much energy because the prize was in the pocket of (Al Pacino in Women perfume). But I just thought it was a pretty light agenda to compete for best actor.
-How does it feel to be the favorite this time, when perhaps, as you said about Pacino, he wasn’t always the favorite?
Downey: It’s hard to say something that doesn’t make you sound like an idiot. This is what I mean. I think we’ll generally agree that something happened this year that restored acceptance and respect for a wide range of filmed entertainment genres. Maybe not as many as we were used to, but certainly enough to keep the business open.
-Do you like awards season or is it more like something you have to get through?
Nolan: (Long pause) It’s a strange process. It doesn’t feel very natural to me. I enjoy making films more than promoting them, like many filmmakers, I think. But at the same time, it’s really wonderful when people respond to movies. You make the movie for an audience, we put it in theaters for an audience, and awards season is one of the ways they tell you that you connected with people.
I love this season! Because you never forget your third time.