Now that the Argentine public is filling the theaters to see the documentaries on the consecration of La Scaloneta (among Guys, the people’s movie y I choose to believe sold 410,000 tickets in three days), a film is released about what has probably been the worst team, the poorest National Team in history.
It is that of American Samoa, which in a qualifying match for the 2002 World Cup, lost as a visitor to Australia by… 31 to 0.
It is the worst defeat suffered by any National Team. And based on those facts, plus the hiring of the Dutch coach, who came from the United States Thomas Rongen several years later, Taika Waititi, the director of the last two of Thor and winner of an Oscar for Jojo Rabbittook charge of the project.
Starring Michael Fassbender, who dyed blonde to look like Thomas Rongen, Elisabeth Moss, Kaimana and Oscar Kightley, Next Goal Winsabout the National Team that had never converted a goal in its history, arrives in Argentine cinemas this Thursday.
We interviewed Taika Waititi and Jaiyah Saelua, a trans soccer player from American Samoa, who was the first trans player to participate in a World Cup Qualifying match.
Taika Waititi is known for his good humor – just remember his films to remember it. Born in New Zealand, we had the Zoom interview days before the World Cup match in France between Los Pumas and the All Blacks, the New Zealand team.
-Well, Pablo, let’s talk about what is going to happen next weekend. What’s going to happen, baby?
-Yes, you beat me to the punch because I was going to ask you the same thing. What do you think about the match between the Pumas and the All Blacks?
-Ehhh… Listen to me: we have great respect for them. You know, they’ve beaten us before, we have a lot of mutual respect for each other and that rivalry goes back a long time. I personally, of course, hope my team wins. And, you know, we made it to the round, but we had a bad run in the first game…
The match ended with New Zealand’s overwhelming victory over Argentina 44-6 in the semi-finals. Thank goodness we talked before.
-When flying over, when you arrive in New Zealand, what you see most are the sticks on the rugby fields. Were you a fan as a kid? Did you play rugby?
-Yes, I played until I was 30, until I broke most of my bones.
-I guess it’s a joke. And speaking of sports, you already know that Argentina is the current world soccer champion. Did you see the World Cup matches?
-Yes, I do. Well done to you! OK, I understand you, they are the best in football.
-I know, haha. What do you know about our cinema or culture? What do you know about Argentina?
-Umm… Well, I know you have the falls that are the border between all those other countries. But I want to tell you that my favorite soccer player is Maradona, I loved that documentary that came out about him and I loved seeing his story. Umm… I don’t want to sound too cliché and stuff, but I like it, I also love a good steak, you know?
-And how much did you know about football before jumping onto the field and filming this film?
-I, uh, well, I played when I was a child and every time there was a game, I watched it. But I just don’t follow the teams that people around me obsessively watch. But I repeat, my sport is rugby. But I love the passion that people have for football. I love, you know, that the crowd supports their teams, it’s like a religion. And more than that, though, I wanted to explore this idea that this team was at the bottom, at the bottom of the table and what that means. And what it means, you know, to ever get a win, what does it mean to win and questions like that.
Go back to the roots
-So, in this sense, you return to your roots to tell more small Aboriginal stories.
-Yes absolutely. Yes. And that’s something I’m proud of where I come from, and I love seeing our people on screen. And this was an opportunity to have even more of us in the story.
-One of the things that the film addresses is shame, not just the specific shame of losing 31 to 0, is that correct?
-Well, I think it is the shame of a father who has not faced the greatest loss of his life. And if you looked at the shame in terms of the team, maybe despite that loss he achieved a goal at the international level. But when you watch the movie, it’s not about that. You know, these people are the proud Pacific itself. People who know their culture, know where they are from and who know their community.
That’s where we get our power from. And I think that’s also a very Western view of what the team would be for, because Thomas is wrong to come in and say, “Oh, they’re all losers.” And that is the great comparison that we come to understand.
-Jaiyah, how good a soccer player are you?
-I was pretty good when I was young and the more I trained with the national team, the better I became. Although I didn’t play my first match until 2011, and in 2019 I became captain of the national team for the first time. So yeah, it’s been a journey. But right now I am among the oldest players, and I am the best on the team.
-And what was the contribution that you and the players gave to Taika before filming?
-None, hahaha. No, all she had was the documentary.
Jaiyah refers to the 2014 documentary, which has the same title as this film (Next Goal Wins). “Every once in a while the facts get devalued, but then we say, ‘We like hearing about it,’” says Waititi, who has a small role in the film.
-It is important that the public understands that the documentary is one thing – continues Jaiyah -. This version of our story is different. Otherwise, if they wanted to know the real events, they could just watch the documentary or Google us.
-This is not the first time you have framed a story in terms of sexuality. And without focusing on character, sexuality.
-Oh yeah. Yes Yes Yes Yes. It’s interesting that you say that, and it’s something I’ve never thought about. I really haven’t. No. It’s supposed to be something like an actor brings that to a role: so it’s not something specific. I would do my best to make sure I check this box, it’s very intrinsic. I like, where we come from, I think a lot of people try to understand what they’ve seen, and they think it’s an idea…
They often try to categorize it in a Western way. You know, Americans love the term spirit, which is not a Polynesian term. That’s a Native American term. But they love to just use this term because it’s the truth. Well, to me, not everyone has their own way of identifying themselves. And growing up, for me it was never a question, it was just part of everyday life and yes, there are people who identify a certain way.
So for me and my stories it’s about not making that the big focal point of the film. The movie is about the team and creating a family within that team, and the culture. And I really love the fact that if you want to know more, you can Google it. And we’re not going to have a big scene to explain anything to people because it’s very Hollywood style and we try to avoid that.
-How difficult was it to convince Michael Fassbender to play the main character?
-Nothing. He knew the real story, I think he was already familiar with the documentary, he read the script and he really liked it. And yes, he signed very quickly.
When it’s time to say goodbye, it’s Taika who remembers the rugby game that was going to be played.
“Next weekend, next weekend…” he says and laughs. You can’t win everything.